The reading for Monday (Vol. 3 Ch. 14) ends with Lady Catherine de Bourgh´s visit to Elizabeth, where Lady Catherine expresses her belief in Elizabeth´s inferiority in all aspects, especially given recent events. What is Lady Catherine saying, how does it represent 18th century society, and in what way does it reflect Austen´s own views? What tensions exist between doing what society expects and doing what we individually want? In what ways is gender important in this case? Social class? Consider also the impersonal 3rd person omniscient narrative and how the reader is left to come to their own conclusions.
Don´t feel pressured to answer ALL the questions-- but try to look for specific quotes to back up what you´re saying.
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Lady Catherine's oh so proper and polite speech was basically the most primal form of condescending. She not only mingled with a non-rich girl, she attacked her and attempted to take liberty away from possibly the most independent character in the novel. It is obvious that she doesn't want her family reputation to be tainted as well as having her plans foiled, as she clearly states when she says that the shades of Pemberley will be polluted. One funny comment Elizabeth makes is when she tells Lady C that her refusing Mr. Darcy's hand would not increase her daughter's chances of being offered it. As far as gender goes, Elizabeth is a bit luckier to be a girl because i believe that if she were a man, she would be seen as another Wickham, or at least someone with the same intentions. Going back to Austen's satire, this is a perfect example as to how the oligarchy of the upper class treats and views everyone else. Lady C felt insulted that Elizabeth even considered being a part of her life as a non-subject. It would definitely be socially improper for the Darcy-Elizabeth union to take place but it would only prove to show how the rich people in 18th century England get what they want. This little conversation between Lady C and Elizabeth served, in my opinion, as a great slap in the face of Lady C; she totally deserved it.
Lady C also shows Elizabeth how terrible her life with Darcy would be due to the fact that she wouldn't fit in with his friends, that she would be criticized, etc. Due to the novel's POV we are aided in the fact that we are less biased towards some characters as well as the fact that we pay more attention to the speaker's diction and the meaning behind their choice. It also helps us feel like we are listening to this first-hand which helps paint a better mental image as well as form our own opinions.
The conversation between Lady Catherine and Elizabeth epitomizes the distinctions between classes in 18th century England. The way the upper class viewed the lower was with complete disdain and condescenion. This conversation also showed Lady C's true feelings. She forgot about every "civility" and simply said what she was thinking. She obviously didn't want her plans of uniting her daughter with Darcy to be ruined but she seemed more concerned with keeping the Bennets out of her immediate circle, because of the situation with Lydia and Wickham. Readers are able to know her true feelings bit only by her words but also her thoughts.It's made known to us how almost every single character feels regarding a situation and from that we may develop our own opinions.
Lady C also tried to scare Lizzy off by telling her that no one from Darcy's family would ever respect her or even acknowlege her as Darcy's wife:"...for do not expect to be noticed by his family and friends, if you wilfully act against the inclinations of all."
Austen also tried to ridicule the upper class's actions and ideas by Elizabeth's answers. Even before this conversation took place, Elizabeth had had other conversations with Lady C that showed how "unsuitable" she was for Darcy, like when she was asked about when had their governess left them and she answered they never had a governess, something Lady Catherine saw as shocking.
I agree with Andres in the sense that Elizabeth is lucky to be a woman. Women were percieved as powerless and the only opportunity they had of saving themselves from poverty and shame was by marrying someone with money.
Lady Catherine makes it clear that it would be practically selfish and unkind for Elizabeth to marry Darcy given his social status. She, Lady Catherine, wants him to marry his own daughter. That brings forward the desire for mothers to find a good (if possible- the best) match for their daughters! She tells her that it would basically be a DISGRACE for him to marry her... ``Because honour, decorum, prudence, nay, interest, forbid it. Yes, Miss Bennet, interest; for do not expect to be noticed by his family or friends, if you wilfully act against the inclinations of all. You will be censured, slighted, and despised, by every one connected with him. Your alliance will be a disgrace; your name will never even be mentioned by any of us.''
So Lady Catherine comes in to tell Lizzy off. Lizzy will not be allowing it though. She unlike most people of her class, didn't stand there and take whatever her "superior" had to say.
Unlike Andres and Ligia, I think it is harder on Elizabeth because she is a woman. Yes it was more acceptable for women to marry for money, but in a scandal like the one Lydia had with Wickham the true evil-doer was Lydia. Woman receive heavier punishment and scorn for having an affair or doing something out of line than men do. Therefore Elizabeth received the full blow of Lady Catherine's anger instead of Darcy.
During this time social class was a big factor in everything one did. It determined where you lived, who you associated with and most importantly who you married. Lady Catherine holds strong to this way of doing things, and her main point that she wanted to get across is that Elizabeth is no where near close of being good enough for Darcy. Austen personal views are seen in Elizabeth, she didnt agree with this. Who you love shouldnt be affected by who you are.
I don't really agree with Andres when he speaks of Elizabeth being luckier in her birth as a woman. A man could gain in name and fortune, while a woman's soul purpose is to marry well enough to not suffer. Greed is synonmous now with women figures.
Lady Catherine is the perfect speaker upon oligarchy. She is the live spokeswoman! Lady C makes sure to let Eliza know that Darcy is practically "betrothed" to her daughter. No one could get in the way of this union, especially a girl like Eliza. And what does that make Eliza? Middle class scum! Middle class doesn't mix with rich gentry, like water and oil. Austin probably lived this universally known reality, making it one of the main conflicts in her book.
Lady Catherine as they mentioned in the book has always planned for his nephew to marry her daughter and they do exist a lot of tensions for Darcy not only ny her family that will never agree to the marriage but also of society and Lady Catherine tells this to Elizabeth by telling her and her family has no class and fortune as theirs. Social class and wealth meant everything in these times. We can see how the high class people discriminated the lower class people even insulting them since Lady Catherine insults Elizabeth family and herself telling. her she is not enough for Darcy. And up to his point I think that it will not be a good idea for Elizabeth to marry Darcy since she would be criticize and all of Darcy's family will never accepted her as part of the family and that would bring her a lot of problems for her marriage. Lady Catherine calls Elizabeth selfish for trying to ruin what was already planned but I might say she is the one that being selfish with her nephew forcing him to marry her daughter and he probably doesn't even love her and not letting him be happily with the women he really loves regardless the social class.
Lady Catherine as they mentioned in the book has always planned for his nephew to marry her daughter and they do exist a lot of tensions for Darcy not only ny her family that will never agree to the marriage but also of society and Lady Catherine tells this to Elizabeth by telling her and her family has no class and fortune as theirs. Social class and wealth meant everything in these times. We can see how the high class people discriminated the lower class people even insulting them since Lady Catherine insults Elizabeth family and herself telling. her she is not enough for Darcy. And up to his point I think that it will not be a good idea for Elizabeth to marry Darcy since she would be criticize and all of Darcy's family will never accepted her as part of the family and that would bring her a lot of problems for her marriage. Lady Catherine calls Elizabeth selfish for trying to ruin what was already planned but I might say she is the one that being selfish with her nephew forcing him to marry her daughter and he probably doesn't even love her and not letting him be happily with the women he really loves regardless the social class.
Let me start by saying that Lady Catherine's little speech pissed me off. She starts berating Elizabeth on why she sucks and why she can't even come close to thinking of marrying Darcy, which is very "condescending" on her part as she came down to her house to explain something that Eliza supposedly already "should" know. It was very frustrating to see her talk on and on about crap nobody cared (like her feelings on his proposal). It was also very funny to see how she began to feel safer with some of the questions that she asked Eliza, but then see her get mad again when she said that if Darcy proposed she would not promise to say no.
Now, her speech is the perfect example, like, I think, everyone has said, of how upper class people saw the world (in relation to class). It was very unfair and also a very selfish way of seeing things, putting themselves above everyone and not admitting anyone into the higher class unless you were born for it. It is also a very stupid system since it turned a blind eye to any potential beauty or brain outside of their class level. That is perfectly portrayed by Catherine with her speech, and how even though it would of course make Darcy happy, she would not allow it saying that it would actually make him less happy, which in reality was false, since it would only affect her and the other stuck-up individuals in the little circle of friends that they have.
I believe that, like Andres and Ligia said, that Eliza was lucky to be a woman, since she did not have to be an actor, but a mere receiver of things. What I mean is, that even though she was powerless as a woman, she was also duty-less, in the sense that she only needed to act nice and wait for a man of money to find her and like her. She wasn't even the one that needed to propose (and I believe that by that time, that idea must have never crossed anyone's mind), she was even forbid from doing that. All she needed to do was wait patiently, acting her best, waiting to be caught by someone's eye.
Lady Catherine had come to Lizzy with the determination to tel her that she and Darcy can't and wont be together because he is already fixed to marry her daughter. It represents those time in the sense that high society ruled and controlled lower classes as they wish, that they always wanted to keep the family line as small as possible, like with kings and queen, and because they believe that marriage between Darcy, a wealthy man, and Elizabeth, a middle class girl, would not be good because it would only wreck their wealth. It reflects on the author's views in the way that she believes all of that is nonsense, that love should not be valued through money, connections and names, but on the affection and companionship. There are a lot in this part of the book, where Elizabeth is seem as vulgar and hardheaded for speaking her mind, and it is also seen that Lady Catherine won't consider any of Eliza's feeling and thoughts about the problem. That woman have no heritage, and cant speak their mind, and dealing with social class, only the last.
it show what went on on this time with social classes. lady c felt even insulted when she thought about the marriage between darcy and lizzy. i agree with bayzha when she says that women are not luckier than men because the depend on the man they marry in order to have a name or to be respected, as of men they can get money and that way become important and respectable people. there are many tensions for mr darcy because he really loves lizzy but there is no one backing him and the fact that he loves her is undeniable. this could also represent what austen felt about the social classes and the importance of them. i believe she puts alot of emphasis on the education and how a family is raised.
Lady Catherine is looking out for her own interests, she wants to put Lizzy to an inferior level so she knows what her place is and make her see that she would only bring Darcy shame.In that society it was basically rich with rich and poor with the poor or else a scandal would evolve. What society views as right is not exactly what we think it is or act as, sometimes people from a certain class hold back on their own opinions just because it may be to bold to say or it may not be within the interests and views of other people in that position.
Lady Catherine's so polite and elegant, but yet rude and condescending speech to Elizabeth made it clear that there was a huge gap between social classes and the inferiority in whcih the lower class was seem by the upper class. With society, everyone woudl expect Mr. Darcy to fall for a rich girl and marry her, as Lady C wanted to, because it was definitely the most obvious thing to do, but no he fell for the poor girl no one expected him to. It is Mr.Darcy who Lady Catherin believes should marry her daughter and it it in Elizabeth's hands to say NO to him and let the space open to her daughter, also if it would have been a man things would have been a lot different. It is important to notice how it was all about marrying the rich guy for the upper class people and how Elizabeth kind of makes a joke about it.. social status was important at the time and it was all about that..
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